My issue is with this one responder. She started her response by saying that since she got pregnant with her twins "without any help from outside sources" that "it only made sense to deliver them without any help from outside sources" - the fuck?? Some of you are probably thinking, "um, I don't get it, what's the problem??" But you have to realize that when you are part of a mother of twins club in the wonderful state of Massachusetts where we have ART covered by insurance, you are going to be in the company of a lot of people who "needed help from outside sources." How is that supposed to make us feel?? Since we had to deal with IF and daily injections and surgeries and FAR too many vaginal ultrasounds, it "only makes sense" that we should also have some scalpel-happy OB slice through our abdomens and birth our long-awaited children that way. I mean, it only makes sense.
And what about the others who also conceived "without help from outside sources" but, for whatever reason, didn't deliver without help? Are they supposed to feel like they went against nature?
To be honest, this says far more about me than it does about this woman - I know she didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings. But I still have a lot of not-so-fun feelings re: IF - I don't think it's something I will ever "get over" but I don't cry about it every day either. It is what it is. I also have unresolved feelings about not being able to deliver without help. It was my plan all along to have a vaginal delivery and for a number of reasons, it didn't work out that way. But even though I am a bit hypersensitive when it comes to these subjects, I don't think I'm alone in this group. And I would certainly keep that in mind before spouting off about what makes sense and what doesn't. This is a group meant for support and I think when people get too caught up in what they do/did and what they believe, they can often forget about the people they are trying to help.
PS: You don't need to tell me I'm crazy. I already know. Rant over.
You're not crazy. That was insensitive. I recently left my Mother of Multiples group altogether over something equally insensitive. I'm still friends with individual people, but refuse to be part of an intolerant organization.
ReplyDeleteYou do whatever you have to do to get your babies out safe and sound. You will find small-minded and opinionated people in all walks of life.
ReplyDeleteNo, you're not crazy, I've been fuming about that message, too. To be frank, she comes off as a totally insensitive idiot. Because not only does her comment not make ANY sense, but it probably pissed off 75% off our members (okay, I have no idea how many members did ART and/or had a c-section, but I imagine it's a large percentage and to insult both groups in one sentence is pretty amazing!)
ReplyDeleteBesides, doesn't she realize that the kids conceived via ART are the true miracles? What's so impressive about someone fertile getting pregnant? It's those kids who come to infertile parents who are truly amazing!
OK somehow I missed that post, but now I'm pissed! What the heck is her comment suppose to mean, like we have any control over what happens when trying to concieve or trying to give birth! She needs to get off her high horse and I think you should direct her to this blog!
ReplyDeleteI'm with you, that was incredibly insensitive. While I am one of the fertiles, I tread very lightly around infertiles bc I simply have not been in their shoes. And hello, getting pregnant and giving birth have nothing to do with each other! If everyone who got pregnant easily delivered easily, there would be no such thing as March of Dimes or premature birth or 25% csection rate.
ReplyDeleteI balked at that one, too, when I saw it come across the listserv. I doubt she meant to offend, but it was a completely insensitive, inappropriate (not to mention weird) thing to say. Inappropriate and weird in general, particularly insensitive when you consider the high percentage of ART in our particular demographic.
ReplyDeleteHow rude!! Personally, I wanted all the help I could get in the delivery room...but that's just me!! : )
ReplyDeleteSweetie. Your not crazy. You sound like a normal person who has gone through IF hell. I feel ya. *hugs*
ReplyDeleteI once had someone tell me that I don't know what a "real" delivery is like because I had a c-section. I mean, the doc "only" had to cut through my stomach muscles, so how could that be painful, right? You're always going to find people who think their way is the only way. I second your WTF.
ReplyDeleteSomehow I missed that post. I was very fortunate and got pregnant very easily. Unfortunately I was not one of the lucky ones who was able to give birth naturally like I planned for either pregnancy, nor was I able to breast feed like I had planned for any of my children. It really is insensitive to not think about how what you say can affect another person. I have also had people tell me that I do not know what it is like to truly give birth since I had c-sections. Unfortunately I had to deal with hypertension issues and needed to do what was best for my babies. I wanted to go natural all the way, and with my first not only did I get to experience my water breaking, going into labor, actively pushing, only to end up with a c-section any way. With the twins, I ended up with a c-section due to my previous c-section and my son being breech. All of this totally out of my control. I also get really disappointed with the way things turned out delivery wise and breast feeding wise, but I have 3 beautiful healthy babies and really wouldn't change a thing. One thing I have realized through all of this is that there is no right way to have children, from conception to delivery. It all depends on what is right for the people involved.
ReplyDeletePeople need to think about what they say/write and how it will affect others! Now I'll get off my soapbox! You are not crazy!
Like Amy said people pull this same crap with formula v. breasfteeding. I have not seen the post but someone should slap that woman upside the head. Also, I had a C-Section and was thrilled to have one and have no doubt if I have another kid it will be repeat. I'm pretty sure there are no gold stars given out in heaving for BFing or vaginal, no drug deliveries. I had two beautiful kids and no contractions - works for me!
ReplyDeleteThanks Nicole for posting this. I saw the post on the list-serv also and was SHOCKED! I am not sure why people feel it's appropriate to say things like that? It was rude and VERY weird!! My girls were conceived spontaneously and delivered via C-Section as was my son. I chose to bring my children into this world the safest way possible and that happened to be via C-Section. I'm surprised no one has responded on the list-serv, I am seriously considering it.
ReplyDeleteOh my...I have so many friends and family who had trouble conceiving that I am overly sensitive that I unexpectedly got pregnant let alone with twins! It was a strange comment to make and definetely more than a little insensitive to OH so many MOMs. I have found that there are a lot of folks out there who use the word "natural" as in..."were they conceived naturally"...or "were they born naturally?"...and the weirdest yet "are you feeding them naturally?" As a scientist I find the misuse of that word offensive! What is an unnatural baby? and I although the stars aligned and I had a vaginal birth things far from natural and could have easily gone the other way. Don't even get me started with feeding naturally...
ReplyDeleteNicole-- don't let one asshole ruin your day. Or make you feel insecure. I just happened upon twins and was able to vaginally deliver-- but my response to that is I WAS UNBELIEVABLY LUCKY. I know that. After my first came out, the second's heart rate dropped and had I not pushed her out the second that I did I would have been sliced. And that's just a tiny bit of the luck of conceiving and vaginally delivering with twins. That this stinky bitch doesn't appreciate her *luck* is not something that you should get you down. You are awesome.
ReplyDeleteBECAUSE:
You are a mother of twins.
Regardless of fertility and delivery, you have one of the hardest jobs IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD. The President gets to piss in peace, right? Well, probably. Air-traffic controller? Pah-leez. Chicken-shit shoveler? Nothing on you, friend. Nothing on you.
www.freckletree.com
Oh man - I had the same reaction when I read her post. And I'm a "fertile" one. Oh wait - but I'm not completely natural cuz I had a planned C-Section. (Two of them!)
ReplyDeleteI'm betting she has no clue that she pissed off ... well ... probably everyone who read the post. Most insensitive people are pretty clueless as well. They fit nicely together, don't you think ;)
Some people think that they actually have control over things like this - like whether they will need a c-section, or whether you'll be able to breastfeed twins, etc. In reality, so much is just up to luck and the universe. I could have choosen a "natural" delivery and all three of us (I had twins, too) would have died - so, I chose a c-section. I could have withheld formula when my breastmilk didn't come in for three weeks so I could feed my babies "naturally", but I chose formula so my 4 lb babies wouldn't starve to death. To me the fact that my babies are alive, healthy and thriving is much more important than how they got that way.
ReplyDeleteBeing a mother is so much more than the type of delivery you had or even how you choose (or how the universe chooses for you) to feed your babies. And definitely more than how you get pregnant for goodness sake - that's less than a blink of the eye in the whole parenting experience. People who think otherwise are just fooling themselves and generally just foolish!
I am sorry she made you feel crappy...ignore her and all the other dumb people. It is hard when it comes from someone that you would expect support from.
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by and giving me the tip on car seats.
Thanks everyone for your comments. Like a lot of you said, so much is sheer luck. Maybe chance would be an even better word since luck implies "good" or "bad" and I odn't think either way of getting pregnant or giving birth are good or bad. All miracles no matter how you slice it.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think she sin't part of our club anymore as she moved away so we shouldn't have to endure more innane comments from her insulting many of our members.
Thanks again all.
Nicole-
ReplyDeleteI didn't like that comment either, when I saw it. Ick. I actually expected her to say the opposite, which I've heard before---well, it took me so much medical intervention to get pregnant I wanted to have them without it, if I could. Nope, not the way she was going! I think some people just have no idea how hard it is to use ART to get pregnant, and thus have no sensitivity when they talk about it.
Hi Nicole - I came over from HDYDI (saw your blog post title in the comments and wanted to know what the WTF was all about!). My husband was sitting next to me the other day when I read that message on our listserv and wanted to know what I was reading when I gasped out loud. Honestly, all I can do is laugh because it is so incendiary and ridiculous at the same time. And, by the way, I'm pretty sure there was at least one "outside source" involved unless she had 2 little clones... :-)
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with a lot of women on here. You have to do what you have to do to birth healthy babies.
ReplyDeletePeople that spout off statements like this normally don't know what they are talking about and let's face it until you've had to deal with birthing multiples you are in no position to talk about it.
But that is the worst thing about ignorance; it's oblivious.
Hi Nicole, I was Blog-browsing and came across WTF?--had a read, and since I don't get the club emails, I went back to find it. I don't know the member, so I have no idea what she was/was not thinking when she wrote it. But I did notice her twins are only 14 wks old--I know at that point, I didn't have the ability to complete a comprehensive thought. And I really don't think her intent was to offend.
ReplyDeleteBut on a more personal note, there are some of us (ok, me) who are/were clueless to what those who have trouble conceiving go through. When I became club pres last year, my first controversey was the reporter who wrote trash about Mass and its twin-over-population. I put an "innocent" poll on our group site asking, just out of my own curiousity, how many members concieved "naturally" and how may through IVF. I recieved *several* emails that there are other methods (Assisted, fertility drugs), etc. I had no idea. And I wasn't being insensitive to those who had gone through any type of treatment. How'd I get pregnant w/ twins? My hubby went on a 4 day testostorone-heavy hunting trip in Montana with man-folk and came home horny as hell. Put 9 months of trying to get prego to rest! Anyway, because of that controversey last year, I LEARNED A LOT. I didn't even know about the MA Ins. laws. I can be naive and *clueless* about the world around me. But even from reading your post I learned a bit about the process. It would just be nicer if other's would have an open mind to other situations.
What it comes down to is this: it doesn't matter how you get pregnant, as you said, it's all a miracle.
It's so amazing how many people this person offended by her comments. Like so many people said, it doesn't matter how babies are conceived, delivered or nourished, all that matters is that they are brought into this world and raised with love. We all want to do what best for our children and they really all our miracles. I hope you feel better with everyones comments.
ReplyDelete